“The most dangerous tour I ever did was the one with Mötley Crüe in the 80s. It was nuts. I said to my tour manager, ‘One of us is gonna die’”: This is what happened when Avenged Sevenfold’s M Shadows interviewed Ozzy Osbourne for Metal Hamme

Black Sabbath’s Ozzy Osbourne and Avenged Sevenfold’s M Shadow posing together for a photograph in 2017
(Image credit: John McMurtrie)

There are few bands as beloved as Black Sabbath, so when Metal Hammer engineered a summit between Ozzy Osbourne and Avenged Sevenfold singer M Shadows during the metal icons’ 2016 farewell The End tour, Shadows bit our hands off. This is what happened when two generations came together.

A divider for Metal Hammer

It’s a rare thing to know that you’re bearing witness to history in the making. It’s even more unusual to see it happen on a buttfuck-freezing Tuesday night in Glasgow. And yet here we are, locked away backstage in the labyrinthine Hydro Arena, in a curtained-off dressing room sitting across from two iron-clad icons of our world. In one corner, Ozzy Osbourne: frontman of Black Sabbath, the band that started it all and without whom this very magazine – hell, every single facet of this scene – wouldn’t exist.

The single biggest personality heavy metal has ever produced, and a man who has now clocked up almost five decades at the top of our game. In the other corner, M. Shadows: singer of Avenged Sevenfold, the band who have attempted to pick up the baton and take heavy music striding into its next chapter, fighting their way up the ranks over a decade-plus to stand as one of our biggest 21st-century names. Put plainly: moments like these just don’t tend to come along very fucking often.

That said, there is something of the stars aligning in this meeting of heavyweights. As we chat today, Black Sabbath are midway through their last ever tour – a definitive full stop on a career that has defined metal as we know it. They are the godfathers. The OGs. The start and endgame for alternative culture. Their exit from this world will be felt keenly and immediately.

Avenged, meanwhile, are two days removed from wrapping up their biggest UK tour to date: an arena-juggling monster that saw them take down two packed London O2 arenas and debut their awe-inspiring new live show. That makes this not only a true clash of generations, but a symbolic passing of the torch – a first and final opportunity to hold an exclusive audience with these two cornerstones of everything our magazine has been built on.

Dressed in a baggy black t-shirt, jewellery, black jeans and a (you guessed it) black beanie, Shadows looked every inch the modern-day rock star while he was snarling, screaming and horn-throwing his way through his shoot with the Prince Of Darkness less than 10 minutes before this interview. Right now, though, it’s very much Matt Sanders the heavy metal fan who is present and correct, evidently as stoked as we are to be sitting centimetres away from the man whos tarted it all, and listening attentively to the answers his interviewee offers (and, to be fair to the Avenged frontman, he makes a solid music journalist. The fucker).

Black Sabbath’s Ozzy Osbourne and Avenged Sevenfold’s M Shadow posing together for a photograph in 2017

Ozzy Osbourne being interviewed by Black Sabbath’s M Shadows in 2017 (Image credit: John McMurtrie)

Ozzy, meanwhile, despite his fame and stature, remains as real as it gets, waving away any superlatives thrown his way and giving the air of a boy from Birmingham genuinely humbled to have been able to do what he does. Despite being savvy enough to click into ‘Ozzy mode’ for the shoot moments ago (honestly, it’s a sight to behold to witness him go Full Vogue and throw about 80 poses in two minutes), he appears bemused to be treated as anything other than a rock’n’roll fan putting on rock’n’roll shows. And, despite his 68 years and shuffling ways (and Jesus, can the man shuffle at speed), he’s chatty, alert and quick to answer everything Shadows throws at him, whether it’s discussing Sabbath’s career, his solo ventures or the next generation of metal heavyweights…

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A divider for Metal Hammer

M Shadows: “So, Metal Hammer asked me to interview you!”

Ozzy: “That’s cool, mate!”

Shadows: “Yeah, it really is! I guess it’s because my band are like the younger generation coming up, and you guys are now on your last ever tour, so it’s come together. How’s the tour all going so far?”

Ozzy: “Well, today I’ve got a fucking perforated ear drum. It’s like my head’s in a box.”

Shadows: “Oh, man. That sounds bad.”

Ozzy: “Yeah, it feels like my ears are underwater, you know? But I’m ready! Let’s do it!”

Shadows: “Well, since this is the last Black Sabbath tour, what tours stand out in particular for you from the early days?”

Ozzy: “Every tour has its moments. A tour’s a tour, you know? We’ve been doing this for 47 years, but it’s like anything in life; you have a good day, you have a bad day, you have a good gig, you have a bad gig. Sometimes you go up there and it’s fucking dreadful, ha ha! Every stage has a different sound. But that’s just rock’n’roll!”

Black Sabbath posing for a photograph in 1970

Black Sabbath in 1970: (l-r) Bill Ward, Geezer Butler, Ozzy Osbourne, Tony Iommi (Image credit: Chris Walter/WireImage)

Shadows: “Were there any bands in particular that you remember from the early days that you enjoyed touring with?”

Ozzy: “Well, the most dangerous one I ever did personally was my solo tour with Mötley Crüe in the 80s. Fucking hell, it was nuts. We were like pirates. I said to my tour manager, ‘Fucking hell, one of us is gonna die on this tour.’ And sure enough, shortly after, Vince Neil killed someone in a car. But for every tour, even now, I’m not one of these guys that reads the riot act to support bands. I don’t say, ‘You can’t be there, you can’t do that.’ I look at it like, it’s a show, it’s not about being on the ‘A Stage’ or ‘B Stage’, it’s just a fucking show. It’s best to be nice rather than be an asshole. To be an asshole you’ve got to have a good memory!”

Shadows: “Ha ha ha! Very true!”

Ozzy: “The band we’ve got on this last tour, Rival Sons, they’re a good bunch of guys. I always greet them and tell them that if there’s anything they need, just ask us. They don’t know what we’re gonna be like. In the old days, headline bands would have the lights turned right up for their supports [to try to sabotage them] and all that kind of shit. I didn’t like that. If you can’t stand the heat, get off the fucking stage, you know?”

Shadows: “Absolutely. So you look after your support bands?”

Ozzy: “You just treat them like people! Otherwise you end up with war, and touring’s a battle enough without that. Just because you’re the opening act, it doesn’t mean you’re not important. I remember when we toured with Kiss, and it was dead for us! All the audience were dressed up in makeup! But it was fun, and if it’s not fun, don’t do it. If you don’t like this gig, get a day job! My mum used to say to me, ‘When are you gonna stop fucking around with this band? Get a real job!’ That’s what she thought, you know, but I just don’t fancy a job at McDonalds, flipping burgers, ha ha ha! I couldn’t hold down a real job anyway…”

Shadows: “Me either. Back to Sabbath: why exactly do you think this band got so big?”

Ozzy: “You know what? That’s a mystery that I’ll never understand. I used to think bands were pulling my leg when they told me they loved Black Sabbath. I remember when I had Metallica opening up for me [in ’86], and I went past their dressing room and I could hear Sabbath’s music coming out! I was so oblivious, I said to my assistant, ‘Are they taking the piss?!’ When you’re in the eye of the storm, you don’t know how big the storm is. So I don’t know the answer to that. But I am glad. And now Black Sabbath’s nearly 50 fucking years old…”

Shadows: “What do you think Sabbath’s most important contribution to metal is?”

Ozzy: “I don’t know. People always say we invented heavy metal. But I like The Kinks, Zeppelin, The Who, and I think we just spawned from that. But I do think that Tony Iommi, for what it’s worth, is the king of all demonic riffs. There’s just no one to fucking touch him. Considering he had his fretboard fingers chopped off… to this day I’m still amazed he knows he’s touching the strings. He’s amazing. He’s one of these guys that you can give any instrument to and he’ll come out of his dressing room playing something on it. It could be the bagpipes, or anything really.”

Shadows: “Ha! Yeah, no one can touch Tony. For me, as someone in a band, you guys really did start all this for all of us.”

Black Sabbath’s Ozzy Osbourne performing onstage in 2016

Black Sabbath’s Ozzy Osbourne live in 2016 (Image credit: Marie Korner/Future Publishing via Getty Images)

Ozzy: “On Ozzfest, younger bands would come up to me and go, ‘Ooooh, we are not worthy!’ [does bowing motion]. I get embarrassed by all that. And some of it, when bands say, ‘You’re our biggest influence’, I can see it, but with some of them I just think, ‘Where the fuck does that come from?!’ What I think we did, is that we handed the torch on. Why we did Ozzfest is because when Sharon phoned up Lollapalooza to see if they’d book me, they said I was a dinosaur. So she said, ‘Fuck you, we’ll do our own festival’ and that’s what happened!”

Shadows: “And we played Ozzfest! Do you think it’s possible for a band nowadays to have the same sort of impact as bands like Sabbath? What advice would you give to the next generation?”

Ozzy: “Well, Metallica weren’t always the Metallica you see now. They were just an opening band, and they’re a fucking monster now. But they’re good guys, good people. A guy said to me a long time ago: ‘You’re gonna meet a lot of people. Don’t fuck with them on the way up, ’cause you gotta meet the same people on the way down.’ Everybody has their five minutes of ego, it’s part of the job, you just have to get over yourself. Look, I’m on the inside looking out, and I’m really humbled that people look up to us, but I’m not very good in the giving advice section. Just have fun! “

Shadows: “Right! So when you got fired in ’79 and you went on and found Randy Rhoads and had a successful solo career, did you keep tabs on the other Sabbath guys?”

Ozzy: “What happened there is that they got Dio, and it spurred them on and it spurred me on. You wanna outdo each other, and it’s healthy. Now I couldn’t give a shit, ha ha ha!”

Shadows: “Ah, you have had some classic albums yourself, though!”

Ozzy: “Well that’s just what happens. It’s like when McCartney left The Beatles.”

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Shadows: “I can actually hear tons of Beatles influence in the Ozzy stuff.”

Ozzy: “Oh yeah. The Beatles were my Black Sabbath, if you like. I met Paul McCartney, and he’s very honest. He said the trouble with The Beatles was that they were lacking musicianship. I said, ‘But fucking hell, they had the best top lines ever.’ I just like melody. Some of this growly stuff gets a bit over the top for me. And I fucking hate hip hop, ha ha ha! But some of the lyrics are fucking great!”

Shadows: “How have you been able to make meaningful music throughout generations?”

Ozzy: “It’s an impossible question. My solo music and Sabbath music is a bit different, and it’s all different styles. Ronnie James Dio did a great job with the Sabbath stuff as well, because you go to any metal festival in Europe now, and they all want to be him! He’s dearly missed.”

Shadows: “Is there anything left that you wish you’d achieved with Sabbath?”

Ozzy: “Doing Sabbath again was like putting a pair of old boots on. I went to school with Tony, I lived near Geezer, so we’re all like brothers, really. The sad thing was that Bill never got it together. I don’t know what the deal is there, because the one thing I don’t do is negotiating or contracts. I don’t want to be involved in any of that.”

Shadows: “That’s probably wise. I know you should probably rest your voice for the show, so the one last thing I wanted to ask you wa

Shadows: how do you hope Black Sabbath will be remembered?”

Ozzy: “Just the fact that we’re remembered is good enough. One of my proudest things is the fact that we weren’t created by some business guys. We were four guys, we had an idea, and it worked. Don’t give up on your dreams. Dreams are what this is all about!”

Black Sabbath’s Ozzy Osbourne being interviewed by Avenged Sevenfold singer M Shadows

(Image credit: John McMurtrie)

And with that, the Prince Of Darkness jolts up, offers both Shadows and Hammer a warm handshake and speed-shuffles his way out of his dressing room to get ready for the show. In less than an hour, he’ll make his way onstage to belt out some of the most influential songs ever written in front of a Scottish crowd for the very last time with Sabbath. After this, he’ll do the same for Leeds, London and, finally, Birmingham, the place where it all started. We certainly won’t see his or Sabbath’s like again, and while rumours of more Ozzy solo action after this run means the Double O is unlikely done with us quite yet, the finality of this Sabbath tour is impossible to shake.

“Man, that was fucking crazy,” beams Shadows as he looks back over a few select shots from today’s shoot. “Did you see all his poses? I need to work on my moves!” Quite where metal will go once its architects have all bowed out for good is anyone’s guess, but witnessing these two men shoot the shit today, it’s hard not to believe that as long as there is passion, belief and, above all else, realness, heavy will always find a way.

Originally published in Metal Hammer issue 283, February 2017

Merlin moved into his role as Executive Editor of Louder in early 2022, following over ten years working at Metal Hammer. While there, he served as Online Editor and Deputy Editor, before being promoted to Editor in 2016. Before joining Metal Hammer, Merlin worked as Associate Editor at Terrorizer Magazine and has previously written for the likes of Classic Rock, Rock Sound, eFestivals and others. Across his career he has interviewed legends including Ozzy Osbourne, Lemmy, Metallica, Iron Maiden (including getting a trip on Ed Force One courtesy of Bruce Dickinson), Guns N’ Roses, KISS, Slipknot, System Of A Down and Meat Loaf. He has also presented and produced the Metal Hammer Podcast, presented the Metal Hammer Radio Show and is probably responsible for 90% of all nu metal-related content making it onto the site. 

“Most celebrities are dullards. I met a lot of these clowns and you assume they’re smart. They are not!” Why the Pretenders’ Chrissie Hynde is one of the last rock stars unafraid of saying what’s on her mind

The Pretenders’ Chrissie Hynde posing for a photograph in 2016
(Image credit: Kevin Nixon/Future)

Chrissie Hynde has steered The Pretenders for more than 45 years, enduring the deaths of two bandmates early on and shifting musical trends. When Classic Rock sat down with on the release of the band’s tenth album, 2016’s Alone, she was as blunt, bullish and charismatic as ever.

Classic Rock divider

Chrissie Hynde sidesteps into the London restaurant, an indomitable riot of colour and character and devil-may-care hair, shrugging off her leopard-print coat to reveal a Mothers Of Invention T-shirt. She doesn’t do handshakes, prefers to fist-bump. Famously down-to-earth, she’s happy discussing local buses and Tubes before I think to ease her in by discussing her new album.

“Well, maybe we should start with, ‘Who are the Pretenders?’” she tweaks, not one to acquiesce for politeness’ sake. “Because otherwise I’ll spend half the time explaining the same thing I’ve tried to explain for about thirty years…”

The 65-year-old is opinionated, talkative, prone to digression and fabulously entertaining.

The Pretenders formed in 1978, a few years after the Ohio-born Hynde had moved to London, landing slap-bang in the birth of British punk. Spectacular early success was followed by tragedy as founding guitarist James Honeyman-Scott and bassist Pete Farndon died (of drug issues, aged 25 and 30 respectively). The golden-voiced Hynde has kept the flag flying with varying line-ups ever since.

Today, as she explains, the Pretenders are one thing live and another in the studio. As we speak, the involves her and her band of almost a decade (though they all work on other projects): James Walbourne on guitar, Nick Wilkinson on bass, Eric Heywood on pedal steel and early-days drummer Martin Chambers.

The studio, however, sees a different approach. The new Pretenders album, Alone, was begun as a second Hynde solo record (following 2014’s Stockholm), but once it got going, all concerned felt it walked and talked like a Pretenders album, and therefore was one. The driving guitars, loose, lean-gutted arrangements and sweet’n’strident vocal delivery just screamed Pretenders, even if many of the songs were about the strength found in solitude.

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The Pretenders posing for a photograph in 2016

Pretenders in 2016: (l-r) Martin Chambers, Nick Wilkinson, Chrissie Hynder, James Walbourne (Image credit: Press)

It was recorded in Nashville with Dan Auerbach of the Black Keys as producer, guitarist and all-round “captain”, and he brought in members of his side project The Arcs, as well as Johnny Cash’s former bass player Dave Roe, plus a cameo from one Duane Eddy. The album fully recaptures that Pretenders mojo that has latterly been hit-and-miss, as various producers strived for the balance of bite and beauty that characterised the group’s early years. (Those first two albums stand up among the most pinpoint-accurate post-punk poetry ever made.) There have been many high points since, of course, but Alone – knocked out quickly, fiercely and with a big sense of fun – has rediscovered the mix of fiery and forlorn within which that voice best states its case.

The cover of Classic Rock 230, featuring Pink Floyd

This feature originally appeared in Classic Rock issue 230 (Oct 2016) (Image credit: Future)

“Every time I do another album, people go: but it’s just you, isn’t it? And I have to say, ‘No, it’s not,’ because it’s a band. I didn’t intend on keeping the name, but when Pete and Jimmy died, I kept going because I wanted to keep the music alive. I always think of the back catalogue as the band’s, not mine. When I made that Stockholm album, it just felt like it was time for a change, to reboot. Feelings shift. I like to think the Pretenders is synonymous with the best band you’ll see this year. My role is kinda to set everyone else up. And, y’know, provide some songs.”

So for these sessions, were Dan and his crew honorary Pretenders for the duration?

“Well, we didn’t know that – we’d assumed it was another solo. I mean, it’s just a name. Then people we played it to said how great it was to have the Pretenders back – that’s how they were hearing it. I sent a long email to Dan explaining the history of the band and why this and why that, and he sent one line back saying, ‘Call it whatever sells the most albums.’ [Laughs] It’s more than that though. It’s what feels right.”

Hynde and Auerbach had met “briefly, in passing” on the road some time ago, and he was number one on her producer wish list. “I just admired him from afar really. I mentioned it to my manager and didn’t necessarily think Dan would jump at the chance. I mean, he’s the sought-after producer of the moment. When I heard he was waiting for me to get in touch, I was like, fantastic! Then we made the album in two weeks…”

Do you like working that fast?

“Everybody does! Nobody wants to sit around for a long time.”

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Hynde had, however, prepared in advance. Although a few weeks before she was due to fly to Nashville she emailed Auerbach to say she had only eight songs. His reply was: “Oh, that’s the least of my worries.” “He’s just so relaxed,” she says.

He gave the same reply when she arrived after two flights with a bronchial infection that meant she could barely talk, let alone sing. (She’s now given up smoking.) “Ah, we’ll do all the vocals in the last two days,” he said. “It’ll make it more cohesive.”

While the singer says she can hear lines where she would have liked her voice to be better, to the untrained fan it sounds like classic Hynde: a force of nature, by turns declamatory and dreamy, pugnacious and precious. “The one thing that makes you unique, of course, is your mistakes and your foibles. Don’t iron them out. It’s rock’n’roll! Who cares?”

From the title track on, these serrated rockers and noir country-tinged ballads (which perhaps echo Auerbach’s work with Lana Del Rey) make you sit up and take notice. The album’s opener is a blast: over an unvarnished riff, Hynde celebrates the joys of being alone. Yes, the joys. She says the idea arose after a studio chat where the guys were all talking about how they’d spent their weekends, and she shrugged that she preferred going to cinemas, restaurants, and for walks by herself. “Write a song about that!” exclaimed Auerbach.

Hynde realised there were a million songs eulogising the idea of being with someone, and as many bemoaning the apparently pitiful state of solitude. “Who actually celebrates being alone?” she asks. “This is a freak luxury we’re afforded in an affluent society. You go into a very poor society and you can’t be alone: you have to be in a team, a system, to survive. And yet being alone has been given negative connotations. I know there’s an epidemic of loneliness, where old people are just left, and in America there’s no interaction because of the car culture, but if you choose to embrace it, it’s a great way to get to know who you are.

“I think probably all the artists we traditionally admired, in any field, developed much of what we love in isolation. Perhaps in their studio, perhaps because their social interactions weren’t up to much. Anyone who gives a dinner party now would love to have a Van Gogh painting in their home, but he wouldn’t last very long at that dinner party. He’d be shown the door after ten minutes. People want the kingdom of God, but they don’t want God in it, basically.”

The Pretenders’ Chrissie Hynde posing for a photograph in 2016

Pretenders’ Chrissie Hynde in 2016 (Image credit: Kevin Nixon/Future)

Being alone is “underrated”, she continues, and when Hynde is continuing, it’s smart not to interrupt. “Make the most of it while you’ve got it. You don’t have to argue with anyone, ask anyone, answer to anyone. Who wants someone that’s giving them a hard time?”

Then the voice that sang, ‘Not me baby, I’m too precious, fuck off,’ switches to the voice that sang ‘Maybe tomorrow, maybe someday,’ and says, “But I guess anyone would rather be with someone, right? C’mon! Anyone would love to be with someone they adore. But if that person isn’t there…” She pauses, gives a wry chuckle. “Maybe that song is just getting attention cos it’s so bonkers.”

Getting so animated that she knocks over her soy coffee, she emphasises that kindred themes not normally broached in pop songs make recurring appearances on the record. “I Hate Myself – that’s another song about stuff people don’t normally say in front of friends,” she says. “I talk about sexual jealousy, going to hell and being judged. And Death Is Not Enough, which a friend of mine wrote, is just a classic, as Dan agreed when I sent him a demo.”

For all this, it’s not a morbid album. When Hynde went back to Nashville – “where, by the way, all the country guys want to be cool like the rock guys and the rock guys want to be cool like the country guys” – a few months later, she and the players listened through and kept looking at each other and laughing. “Not that it’s comedy, but… rock’n’roll should be funny! If you’re laughing, it’s rock’n’roll. A lot of it goes over people’s heads – I mean, if you listen to Bob Dylan, who’s considered a poet, I’d say his style is comedic. [The album’s working title was ‘Chrissie Hynde Practises Her Autograph’.] Or then again, rock’n’roll can help you vent your frustrations, which isn’t always funny, but feels great.”

She has, of course, great stories. Dylan offered to collaborate with her, but back then she didn’t really know how to. She gave Bowie a lift home in her mum’s car once. She misses Lemmy, who was “instrumental in me getting my band together”, and recalls how hearing Iggy’s “very American” voice made her feel her own accent, which she’d hated, was okay. Roadie Man, on the new album, is a song she wrote 20 years ago: Elvis Costello said she should record it after she sang the chorus to him. Having her friends Neil Young and John McEnroe as guests on Stockholm was her doing, but it was Auerbach who got Duane Eddy in on the new one. “He texted me at three am telling me Duane was doing the honours. Crazy.”

Pretenders posing for a photograph in 1980

Pretenders in 1980: (l-r) Pete Farndon, Chrissie Hynde, James Honeyman-Scott, Martin Chambers (Image credit: Fin Costello/Redferns/Getty Images)

Hynde also has plentiful views on the state of the art: she thinks the whole musical landscape has got a little conservative, with too many singer-songwriters. “Bands have always been my main turn-on,” she says.

She remembers the impact Jimi Hendrix’s Are You Experienced had on her, and blames MTV for arresting the growth of rock.

“A lot of girls realised that sex sells,” she explains, “and if they made soft porn videos, bumping and grinding in their underwear, y’know, that took over for years. Then you move on another generation and the girls that grew up watching that think it ‘empowers’ them. This idea that getting your kit off empowers you – it’s a real weird one. I don’t get it. For me, rock’n’roll was always androgynous and irreverent. You weren’t trying to get somebody’s dick hard, y’know?”

She takes a breath, shakes her mane, her earrings flickering. “Ah, I shouldn’t get into gender issues because I find them boring as fuck. There’s just a real lack of common sense. Like back when Malcolm [McLaren] and Vivienne [Westwood] were doing that bondage gear, we saw it as a piss-take on the conservative society. Two fingers up to the establishment. But then the next generation missed the irony… now so much that music is just advertising. You tell a teenage kid that you were offered a million dollars to do a Pepsi Cola ad and you turned it down, and they’re like: ‘Why?’ You can’t explain to them. The goalposts have been not so much moved as completely dismantled and shifted to another planet.”

Nevertheless, Hynde is optimistic that now a generation bored of watching reality TV with their parents will rebel, and that the cycle arrested by the rise of the internet will resume. “It’s an interesting time. Even two years ago I was depressed: it wasn’t like when I was eighteen and could reel off forty bands that were amazing, unique – and looked great too. This was before stylists. This was when it was underground. Now that everyone’s adapted to the protocol about all the new technology, we might get surprises again. I want surprises!”

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Hynde’s memoir Reckless emerged last year and delivered its fair share of surprises. The story ends in 1983: “Because once I got to where Pete and Jimmy died, I thought: ‘This feels wrong.’”

Its candid tales of her youth caused some controversy, but her style – “I don’t consider myself a writer, as such. Never have” – was typically frank and upfront. She reasons, “I’m not a storyteller in my songs. They’re pretty much specifically autobiographical. I sometimes wish they weren’t. If I’m singing something, it’s because I’ve experienced it personally.”

She’s baffled when she reads the term “break-up album”, as if that’s a rare thing. “Every record I ever bought was a break-up album. Every song I ever wrote was a break-up song.”

She’s got momentum now. Pausing only to rant about the “bullshit” that is the Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame (into which the Pretenders were inducted in 2005) – “Americans love that shit. I think it’s everything that rock and roll isn’t” – she explains that she’d rather be interviewed by Classic Rock than “any fashion magazines”. I point out that she’s also defied standard celebrity behaviour by riding on buses.

“But that’s just the way I am,” she laughs. “I’m not ‘keeping it real’. It’s my choice. This all blew up cos I rode on a bus in LA and a national TV show made a big deal of it. They couldn’t quite believe it. I was going: are you people serious? I’m just trying to live my life. I want the freedom to walk down the street. I’ve never wanted a ‘celebrity lifestyle’ – that’s just… queer. When you meet those people, most of them are dullards. I met a lot of these clowns and you assume because they’ve got big money and success that they’re smart… no, they are not! They’re basically living in a high-security prison.”

The Pretenders playing live in their studio in 2016

Pretenders live in their rehearsal room in 2016 (Image credit: Kevin Nixon/Future)

Similarly, she’d rather play theatres (“I wanna see the audience”) than stadiums. “If I’m in an audience, I don’t wanna look at a screen. That makes me feel like a c**t! Why did I come out to watch a screen? I could’ve done that at home. It’s the antithesis of rock’n’roll. Rock’n’roll should be intimate and personal and… not for everybody.”

Digressing back to her loathing of the word “empowerment”, Hynde reckons it shouldn’t be about gender but about individual expression, about “feeling that you can be yourself”. She read Charles Mingus’s autobiography when she was 17 and was struck by the line: “Music is a colourless island.” Ignoring all stereotypes then, Alone covers what in one song she calls the “perversions of the heart”, and does so with the kind of relaxed intensity that Hynde herself exudes. “It came together like a constellation,” she says.

Hynde gets out her phone to show off some of her art. She started painting in February, and now “knocks out one a day” when at home. “I’m obsessed! I’ve done about two hundred…”

She’d always wanted to, and is now making up for lost time. There are flowers, chairs, portraits, self-portraits “and some abstracts, and some… imaginary people”. She gets so into it that she doesn’t even have music on, just stares at it for hours till it’s done. “Oil painting is so sensual.”

Could this be your new passion? Might it replace music? “I love being on the road, my kids are grown up now and it buoys me up,” she says. “But you can’t do it all the time or else that becomes mediocre too. Once something gets boring, it gets ugly. So now I go out for like two months, not two years. But hey… I have no idea – maybe something else will come up that I like even better. I do things when they feel right. I don’t have a ‘goal’. That’s the thing: with music, I’ve never had a goal. The goal is just not to stink the place out.”

Alone again or representing the Pretenders, this bullishly brilliant bouquet of barbed wire has always come up roses.

“Life’s a canvas,” she declares. “And I’m on it.”

Originally published in Classic Rock issue 230, October 2016

Chris Roberts has written about music, films, and art for innumerable outlets. His new book The Velvet Underground is out April 4. He has also published books on Lou Reed, Elton John, the Gothic arts, Talk Talk, Kate Moss, Scarlett Johansson, Abba, Tom Jones and others. Among his interviewees over the years have been David Bowie, Iggy Pop, Patti Smith, Debbie Harry, Bryan Ferry, Al Green, Tom Waits & Lou Reed. Born in North Wales, he lives in London.

“I was a budding arsonist – I tried to recreate the cover of Pink Floyd’s Wish You Were Here by setting fire to my mate’s back”: The prog world of Nightwish’s Troy Donockley

Troy Donockley
(Image credit: Getty Images)

In 2019 Nightwish and Auri multi-instrumentalist Troy Donockley presented a glimpse of his prog world, including his favourite songs, albums, venues and more.


Where’s home?
I live in a tiny little village in north Yorkshire.

Earliest prog memory?
Sitting in a darkened room with my dad when I was about 10, listening to Rick Wakeman’s Journey To The Centre Of The Earth.

First prog album you bought?
My very first album was actually the soundtrack to Jaws, closely followed by The Dark Side Of The Moon.

And the last?
Fordlandia by Jóhann Jóhannsson. He was known for composing music for films like Arrival and Sicario, but this is a concept album he made in 2008.

First prog gig?
Pink Floyd’s The Wall tour at Earl’s Court in 1980. I’d just turned 16 and it completely rearranged my consciousness, and put me on the road that I’m still trundling along.

And the latest?
The Steve Hillage Band in Glasgow, just before Christmas. It was a bleak night and the venue was small, but he was great.

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Yes – Awaken (Live at Montreux Jazz Festival 2003) – YouTube Yes - Awaken (Live at Montreux Jazz Festival 2003) - YouTube

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Newest prog discovery?
The Russian duo Iamthemorning. I actually bought Lighthouse after hearing a track on a CD on the cover of Prog.

Guilty musical pleasure?
I’ve been known to dance around to Cannibal Corpse and to Baccara’s Yes Sir, I Can Boogie – but only when I’m not in my right mind!

Your specialist subject on Mastermind?
The films of Laurel And Hardy, 1929 to 1940.

Mike Oldfield turned my brain into a 100 watt lightbulb… he totally blew my sockets

Favourite prog venue?
To see a show, Pocklington Arts Centre – a lovely up-and-coming venue in York. To play, Wembley Arena. I played there with Nightwish a few years ago and realised a childhood dream by saying, ‘Good evening, Wembley!’

Your prog hero?
Mike Oldfield. He turned my brain into a 100 watt lightbulb when I was a kid. Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn totally blew my sockets.

Outside of music what are you into?
Close-up magic has been a passion of mine since I was a kid. And baking – I bake all our bread in our house. I’m deadly serious about it. I have a proving cabinet!

Ever had a prog date?
Yes. I met my wife when she was playing baritone sax in a psychedelic folk-fusion band at a free festival near Carlisle in 1985. She then led me by the hand to this really weird tent to marvel at Hawkwind.

Hergest Ridge: Part One (1974 Stereo Mix) – YouTube Hergest Ridge: Part One (1974 Stereo Mix) - YouTube

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Who do you call in the prog community for a good night out?
My dear old friend Bryan Josh from Mostly Autumn. When we’re both in the mood we tend to reach bacchanalian heights of rare power!

What’s the most important piece of prog music?
It can only be Awaken by Yes. Nothing comes close as a genre-defining piece, it really is preternaturally brilliant.

Which prog muso would you most like to work with?
Andy Latimer from Camel. I’d love to do a duet with him on guitar and me on Uilleann pipes. I think we’d fit perfectly. I hope he reads this!

Which proggy album gets you in a good mood?
Free Hand by Gentle Giant. It’s wild, terrifying and joyous at the same time. My favourite Gentle Giant album.

Your favourite prog album cover?
Wish You Were Here. I had posters of it all over my bedroom, but I was also a budding arsonist at the time. I once tried to recreate it by setting fire to my mate’s back. He didn’t go up though; I probably wouldn’t be talking to you now if he had!

A music journalist for over 20 years, Grant writes regularly for titles including Prog, Classic Rock and Total Guitar, and his CV also includes stints as a radio producer/presenter and podcast host. His first book, ‘Big Big Train – Between The Lines’, is out now through Kingmaker Publishing.

“I fear for the world”: Bonnie Raitt on winning Grammys, working with Prince, and why we need to work together

Bonnie Raitt studio shot
(Image credit: Shervin Lainez)

Known for a sultry fusion of blues, country, rock and folk, Bonnie Raitt has been releasing albums since 1971. Almost two decades later, her career went stellar with the multi-platinum album Nick Of Time. Its follow-up, 1991’s Luck Of The Draw, included the über ballad I Can’t Make You Love Me, later covered by George Michael, Adele and many more.

Below, the Californian-born singer, guitarist and political activist previews her upcoming European tour.

Lightning bolt page divider

Having toured here two years ago, this is a fairly speedy return.

I wanted to play more than one city in Scotland, and other places in England that we didn’t get to last time, so I’m excited to be coming back again.

Prior to that 2023 tour you won three more Grammys in one night for your album Just Like That…, bringing your total haul of Grammys to a whopping thirteen.

The genre of Americana has gotten so big, I wasn’t surprised to get nominated in that category [for the song Made Up Mind], but I was really surprised to win Song Of The Year [with the album’s title track]. The Daily Mail had me on the cover saying: “Unknown blues singer wins Grammy”. That cracked me up.

Having success with a self-written song must have felt sweet, given that you are sometimes seen as an ‘interpreter’ rather than a writer.

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It was wonderful. I was even more thrilled by the response to that song generally as it’s about organ donation, so if it brought more attention to that subject then it was doubly sweet.

But you’re not precious about the source of your material: a good song is a good song, regardless of who wrote it.

Oh yeah. And it would be quite boring for me to have my own view only. I love mixing a Richard Thompson song with an Al Green cover or something by John Prine. That’s part of the joy of what I do and why I’ve kept it up for so long, and also hopefully some of the reason that the fans love what I do.

Bonnie Raitt – I Can’t Make You Love Me – YouTube Bonnie Raitt - I Can't Make You Love Me - YouTube

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Your most famous recording, I Can’t Make You Love Me, was a previously uncelebrated song written by a pair of unknown songwriters.

It was great that they [Mike Reid and Allen Shamblin] sent that song to me. When I heard it I almost fell over due to its greatness. It’s a stunning, classic heartbreak song with sophisticated lyrics.

Achieving mainstream success with your tenth album, Nick Of Time, at the age of forty, did you appreciate it more?

Absolutely. I don’t regret anything that happened until that point, but it was frustrating not to have the records in the store when I had worked so hard, selling out tours and working ten months per year. Also, I had been sober for a year when I wrote the album, which is sort of what it’s about.

You were briefly signed to Paisley Park Records by Prince.

Actually, I wasn’t, though we did discuss a collaboration. I had been dropped by Warners, and he said he loved my music. I went to Minnesota to meet him, but all he played me was finished songs that were not in my key and not topics that I would sing about, whereas I had wanted to work on songs from scratch. So it never got off the ground.

What was Prince like, in your experience?

He was pretty shy. You’d have dinner with him and he wasn’t good at making eye contact. But otherwise he was like you expected.

Bonnie Raitt – Something To Talk About – YouTube Bonnie Raitt - Something To Talk About - YouTube

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For an artist, what’s it like to play at a church of music like London’s Royal Albert Hall?

Oh, my goodness. I was so nervous the first time. I had never felt that I would get to that place, and, incredibly, we actually sold it out.

What about the songs you’ll be playing on this tour? Do you stick rigidly to a set-list?

No. I’m always conscious of what we played the last time we were in a city. This time, with no new album to promote, I can relax and pull out some deep cuts.

Three years down the line from Just Like That…, are you prepping a follow-up?

No. We’ve been on the road for so long there hasn’t been the time.

As an extraordinarily principled and compassionate person, and also a social activist, living in the US right now, each day must bring a new and different nightmare?

You couldn’t have put it any better. It’s an unprecedented situation. Our immigrant community is being rounded up unfairly, then there are the threatened cuts in Medicaid, and now there’s no more research on vaccines for the pandemic. The climate crisis gets worse, they’re looking to drill off the California Coast. There are no firefighters for the next disaster. It’s an illegal takeover by a man who is, in my mind, a threat to our democracy.

Do you fear for the nation’s future?

I do. And also for that of the world. We need to work together, and it isn’t happening.

Bonnie Raitt’s European tour begins on June 1 in Dublin, while US dates begin in August. For full dates and tickets, visit Bonnie’s website.

Dave Ling was a co-founder of Classic Rock magazine. His words have appeared in a variety of music publications, including RAW, Kerrang!, Metal Hammer, Prog, Rock Candy, Fireworks and Sounds. Dave’s life was shaped in 1974 through the purchase of a copy of Sweet’s album ‘Sweet Fanny Adams’, along with early gig experiences from Status Quo, Rush, Iron Maiden, AC/DC, Yes and Queen. As a lifelong season ticket holder of Crystal Palace FC, he is completely incapable of uttering the word ‘Br***ton’.

“The idea is that one night like that it worth 1,000 hours of drudgery”: the meaning behind The Cure’s classic 1987 hit Just Like Heaven

The Cure in 1987
(Image credit: Ross Marino/Getty Images)

As The Cure arrived at 1987’s seventh album Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Robert Smith and the ever-revolving gang were a very different proposition to the band that had started the decade. Gone was the tightly-wound, bleak intensity of their early albums, the gothic gloom replaced by a more two-pronged MO that swayed between fizzy, indelible pop songs and intricately-layered and atmospheric rock.

You could argue that the former approach reached its peak on Kiss Me…, released on 26th May, 1987, with the album’s imperious standout Just Like Heaven. A song both weighted with pop perfection and one that feels light-as-a-feather, it is the ultimate distillation of a band everything that made them such outsider heroes into a mainstream sound. Robert Smith agrees. “It’s the best pop song The Cure have ever done,” he told Blender in 2003. “All the sounds meshed, it was one take and it was perfect.”

Given the sense of blissed-out euphoria the song evokes, its creation was a little more mundane. Smith was living in a two-bedroom flat in Maida Vale, north London, at the time he came up with its warm, strummed chord sequence and yearning melodic hook, a product of forcing himself to get to work every day. “Just about the only discipline I had in my life was self-imposed,” he stated. “I set myself of writing 15 days a month; otherwise I’d have just got up in mid-afternoon and watched TV until the pubs opened then gone out drinking.”

You imagine that the Cure leader certainly gave himself a pat on the back that day, feeling satisfied he’d written a catchy little number and telling Blender he only realised later that he’d crafted a nod to The Only Ones’ wiry 1978 hit Another Girl, Another Planet.

After being something of a songwriting despot in the early years of The Cure, though, Smith was determined that Kiss Me… would be a more collaborative affair and was intrigued to see where the song might go in the hands of his band, at that point featuring Lol Tolhurst on keyboards, Simon Gallup on bass, Porl Thompson on guitar and Boris Williams on drums.

What was originally a slower, more considered composition was immediately transformed into something else by the rhythmic punchiness of drummer Williams. “He introduced a drum fill that gave me the idea of introducing the instruments one by one before the vocal comes in,” Smith explained.

Having gotten the music to the track down at Studio Miraval in the south of France, Smith decided to hand over the as-yet-wordless song (because the singer hadn’t written the lyrics yet) to French TV show Les Enfants du Rock when they asked if The Cure could provide them with a theme tune. His reasoning was sound. “It meant the music would be familiar to millions of Europeans even before it was release,” he said.

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Now Smith’s focus turned to the lyrics, the song’s meaning scattered with signposts to different parts of his adolescence. The iconic opening line – “Show me, show me, show me how you do that trick…” – refers to Smith’s love of bamboozling his pals with magic tricks as a kid, the rest of the words delving into a night he’d had as a teen when he and his friends had been drinking and decided to go for a nocturnal stroll. “It was something that happened on Beachy Head, on the south coast of England,” he told Blender. “The song is about hyper-ventilating – kissing and fainting to the floor.”

The reason that the song’s Tim Pope-video ended with Smith embracing wife Mary is because that’s what happened in real life, he said. “Mary dances with me in the video because she was the girl, so it had to be her. The idea is that one night like that it worth 1,000 hours of drudgery.”

A few months after its parent album arrived, Just Like Heaven was released as a single, in October, 1987. Its impact was modest at the time, becoming a Top 40 hit in the UK and reaching number 40 in the US but time has given Just Like Heaven the kudos it deserves, now regarded as a Cure classic. Covered by a range of artists including Dinosaur Jr. (whose version is Smith’s favourite Cure cover ever), Katie Melua, The Lumineers and LA’s Section String Quartet, it has become one of The Cure’s most well-known and best-loved songs. One a groggy winter morning in early 1987, Robert Smith had to force himself to get up and get to work on writing songs. We’ll be forever glad that he did.

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Niall Doherty is a writer and editor whose work can be found in Classic Rock, The Guardian, Music Week, FourFourTwo, on Apple Music and more. Formerly the Deputy Editor of Q magazine, he co-runs the music Substack letter The New Cue with fellow former Q colleagues Ted Kessler and Chris Catchpole. He is also Reviews Editor at Record Collector. Over the years, he’s interviewed some of the world’s biggest stars, including Elton John, Coldplay, Arctic Monkeys, Muse, Pearl Jam, Radiohead, Depeche Mode, Robert Plant and more. Radiohead was only for eight minutes but he still counts it.

“I’m scared for my life and career at this point.” Dream Theater’s Mike Portnoy jokes he’s worried about his job after spate of drummer firings

Portrait of American rock musician Mike Portnoy photographed in London, on July 2, 2012.
(Image credit: Will Ireland/Prog Magazine/Future via Getty Images/Future via Getty Images)

Dream Theater‘s Mike Portnoy says he’s worried about his future after seeing a spate of high-profile drummers lose their job recently.

Josh Freese was let go by the Foo Fighters this month, The Who fired Zak Starkey a few weeks ago and Guns N’ Roses parted with Frank Ferrer in March.

Last year, Jason Bonham was replaced in Sammy Hagar’s band.

Reacting to those firings, Portnoy jokes that he is looking over his shoulder.

As well as his role in Dream Theater, which he returned to in 2023, Portnoy works with a number of other groups and artists.

He tells Office Hours Live With Tim Heidecker: “I think it’s the Spinal Tap conspiracy. I think nobody is safe. Ringo’s son was fired from The Who. John Bonham’s son was fired from Sammy Hagar’s band.

“I mean, if the spawn of Ringo and Bonzo are not safe, nobody is safe.”

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On Freese’s shock departure from Foo Fighters, Portnoy says: “Frankly, it’s shocking. I thought Josh was perfect. So, yeah, it’s scary. It’s scary times for drummers.

“I’m scared for my life and career at this point. And I’m in, like, 15 bands, so I have 15 times the chance of getting fired right now. The odds are very much stacked against me right now.”

On Starkey’s firing from The Who, which came weeks after he was fired then almost immediately rehired, Portnoy adds: “The whole thing with Zak Starkey started … they did a show last month at the Royal Albert Hall.

“They were doing The Song Is Over and Roger came into the second verse early and stopped the band, turned around and blamed it on his mix, that the drums were powering out his mix.

“Now, mind you, Zak Starkey is on an electronic kit. They already downgraded it off of an acoustic kit. They have him playing an electronic kit, which is fully controllable in terms of volume through the sound guy.

“So, if anything, he should have fired the monitor guy, not Zak.”

Dream Theater released Parasomnia, their first album with Portnoy for 15 years, in February.

Nick Kroll, RM Brown, Mike Portnoy (Episode 341) – YouTube Nick Kroll, RM Brown, Mike Portnoy (Episode 341) - YouTube

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Stef wrote close to 5,000 stories during his time as assistant online news editor and later as online news editor between 2014-2016. An accomplished reporter and journalist, Stef has written extensively for a number of UK newspapers and also played bass with UK rock favourites Logan. His favourite bands are Pixies and Clap Your Hands Say Yeah. Stef left the world of rock’n’roll news behind when he moved to his beloved Canada in 2016, but he started on his next 5000 stories in 2022. 

Queen icon Freddie Mercury had a secret daughter, according to a new biography

A new biography of late Queen frontman Freddie Mercury claims he had a secret daughter with whom he had a close relationship until his death in 1991.

The 48-year-old woman, who is known only as B, works in the medical field somewhere in Europe. She has shared her story with rock biographer Lesley-Ann Jones for the new book, titled Love, Freddie.

The book claims B was conceived in 1976 when Mercury had an affair with the wife of one of his close friends. It adds that Mercury regularly spent time with the child.

It also claims Mercury gave B 17 volumes of his personal journals, which she kept secret until now.

The Daily Mail reports that B says in the book: “Freddie Mercury was and is my father.

“We had a very close and loving relationship from the moment I was born and throughout the final 15 years of his life.

“He adored me and was devoted to me. The circumstances of my birth may seem, by most people’s standards, unusual and even outrageous.

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“That should come as no surprise. It never detracted from his commitment to love and look after me. He cherished me like a treasured possession.”

Mercury was known to have had relationships with both men and women. He died from complications of HIV/AIDS.

B’s existence was said to be known only to Mercury’s inner circle of friends.

In the book, B explains why she has revealed her story and the journals now. She says: “After more than three decades of lies, speculation and distortion, it is time to let Freddie speak.

“Those who have been aware of my existence kept his greatest secret out of loyalty to Freddie.

“That I choose to reveal myself in my own midlife is my decision and mine alone. I have not, at any point, been coerced into doing this.

“He entrusted his collection of private notebooks to me, his only child and his next of kin, the written record of his private thoughts, memories and feelings about everything he had experienced.”

Author Jones tells the Daily Mail: “My instinct was to doubt everything, but I am absolutely sure she is not a fantasist. No one could have faked all this. Why would she have worked with me for three and a half years, never demanding anything?”

Love, Freddie is due to be released in February of this year.

Complete List Of Billy Joel Band Members

Complete List Of Billy Joel Band Members

Feature Photo: Debby Wong / Shutterstock.com

Joel’s professional journey began in 1971 with the release of his debut solo album “Cold Spring Harbor,” and he has since released 13 studio albums, selling over 150 million records globally while being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 1999. His band evolved significantly over the years, starting with session musicians and various touring lineups before stabilizing around 1975 with what became known as his classic band formation, which remained largely intact through the 1980s before undergoing major changes in the late 1980s and early 1990s.

Billy Joel’s touring band as a whole did not begin playing on his records until he recorded the album “Turnstiles” in 1976, marking the beginning of his most creatively and commercially successful period. This lineup included Richie Cannata on saxophones and organ, Liberty DeVitto on drums, Russell Javors and Howie Emerson on guitars, and Doug Stegmeyer on bass. This core group, which became known as the classic Billy Joel Band, provided the musical foundation for Joel’s greatest hits from “The Stranger” (1977) through “The Bridge” (1986), including timeless songs like “Just the Way You Are,” “Piano Man,” “Uptown Girl,” and “We Didn’t Start the Fire.” The band’s chemistry was rooted in their shared Long Island origins and their musical history together before joining Joel’s organization.

The band, which now no longer includes any of its original members, underwent significant changes in the late 1980s when Joel decided to pursue different musical directions and work with new producers. From “The Stranger” in 1977 through “The Bridge” in 1986, Joel had been working with the same producer, Phil Ramone, as well as with the same basic incarnation of the Billy Joel Band, but for the 1989 album “Storm Front,” Joel chose a new producer, Mick Jones of Foreigner, and started making more significant personnel changes. Today’s Billy Joel band continues the tradition of musical excellence while supporting his ongoing touring commitments, including his record-breaking monthly residency at Madison Square Garden that began in 2014 and has become the most successful concert franchise in the venue’s history.

Liberty DeVitto

Liberatori “Liberty” DeVitto served as Billy Joel’s drummer from 1975 to 2005, making him the longest-tenured member in Joel’s band history and one of the most recognizable figures in Joel’s musical legacy. Born on August 8, 1950, in New York City to Italian ancestry, DeVitto taught himself to play drums after seeing The Beatles perform on The Ed Sullivan Show in February 1964. He was also influenced as a teenager by rock drummer Dino Danelli and developed a hard-hitting, aggressive style that would become perfect for Joel’s New York-influenced sound.

DeVitto’s path to joining Joel’s band began through his childhood friendship with Russell Javors and their shared experience in the Long Island band Topper alongside Doug Stegmeyer. Billy and I used to play the same club in Plainview, Long Island called “My House.” We would watch each other play and acknowledge each other in passing. When Joel was looking for a permanent band in 1974, Doug Stegmeyer recommended DeVitto because Billy was looking for a New York-type drummer, aggressive and hard hitting. The three of us recorded the basic tracks for Turnstiles and we both recommended Russell Javors and Howie Emerson, who played guitars in Topper and with the addition of Richie Cannata on saxophone, the “Billy Joel Band” was born.

DeVitto’s drumming provided the rhythmic foundation for Joel’s most successful albums, including “Turnstiles,” “The Stranger,” “52nd Street,” “Glass Houses,” “The Nylon Curtain,” “An Innocent Man,” “The Bridge,” “Storm Front,” and “River of Dreams.” His powerful playing style and intuitive understanding of Joel’s musical vision made him an essential component of the band’s sound. He is credited as a drummer on records which have sold a combined total of 150 million units worldwide. DeVitto’s contributions extended beyond drumming, as he often provided input on arrangements and helped shape the band’s overall musical direction.

The partnership between DeVitto and Joel came to an end in 2005 when DeVitto was not invited to continue with the band, leading to legal disputes over royalties and song credits. After working with Joel for 30 years, DeVitto was discharged from the 2006 Billy Joel tour for an unknown reason. The two eventually reconciled in 2020 when DeVitto reached out via email, leading to a meeting and Joel’s agreement to write the foreword for DeVitto’s memoir “Liberty: Life, Billy and the Pursuit of Happiness.” Following his departure from Joel’s band, DeVitto formed The Lords of 52nd Street with fellow former Joel band members Richie Cannata and Russell Javors, performing faithful renditions of Joel’s classic recordings.

Doug Stegmeyer

Douglas Alan Stegmeyer served as Billy Joel’s bassist from 1974 to 1989, becoming one of the most important musical contributors to Joel’s classic period and earning the nickname “The Sergeant Of The Billy Joel Band.” Born on December 23, 1951, in Flushing, Queens, Stegmeyer grew up in a musical family with his father being an accomplished musician and his mother a contemporary singer and piano player. He took up bass guitar at age 14 and after graduating from Syosset High School, joined the band Topper with friends Russell Javors and Liberty DeVitto, becoming one of the hottest club bands on Long Island.

Stegmeyer’s introduction to Billy Joel came in 1974 when Joel was living in Los Angeles and looking for a new band with a New York sound. A mutual friend suggested that Joel reach out to Stegmeyer, and he flew out to California to join Joel on bass for the “Streetlife Serenade” tour. After the tour finished, Stegmeyer suggested that Joel give a listen to DeVitto and Javors, leading to the formation of what would become the classic Billy Joel Band. Stegmeyer’s bass work can be heard on every one of Joel’s studio albums from “Turnstiles” (1976) through “The Bridge” (1986), as well as the live albums “Songs in the Attic” and “КОНЦЕРТ.”

Stegmeyer’s playing style combined keen musical intuition with harmonic awareness and a band-first mentality that made him the perfect foundation for Joel’s intricate songwriting. His bass work featured tastefully executed grace notes, slaps, fretless glissandos, and nimble plectrum and finger picking, all rendered with a crisp bite that served the song. He frequently matched Liberty DeVitto’s kick drum patterns to reinforce the pulse of the song, creating one of the most powerful rhythm sections in popular music. His tone stood out through the mix, providing a clean and powerful low end with enough midrange presence to definitively stand up to the other instruments.

Stegmeyer and Russell Javors left the band in 1989, according to DeVitto, they were forced out as Joel made significant changes to his musical direction. Following his departure from Joel’s band, Stegmeyer maintained a busy schedule recording and producing, opening his own studio and continuing his music career. Tragically, on August 25, 1995, Stegmeyer died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound in his Smithtown, New York home. On October 23, 2014, Stegmeyer was posthumously inducted into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame along with his former Topper and Joel bandmates Richie Cannata, Liberty DeVitto, and Russell Javors, primarily for their work with Joel.

Russell Javors

Russell Javors served as guitarist and vocalist for Billy Joel’s band from 1976 to 1989, contributing rhythm guitar, backing vocals, and occasional lead guitar work during Joel’s most successful commercial period. Born and raised on Long Island, Javors began his musical journey at age 15, performing songs with his childhood friend Liberty DeVitto. He met Doug Stegmeyer in high school, and along with Howard Emerson, formed the band Topper, where they performed original songs written by Javors. The band became known as one of the hottest club acts on Long Island and eventually attracted Billy Joel’s attention.

Javors’ transition from Topper to the Billy Joel Band occurred when Joel was assembling his permanent touring and recording group in 1975. When DeVitto and Stegmeyer joined Joel to record basic tracks for “Turnstiles,” they recommended both Javors and Howard Emerson as guitarists. Javors’ rhythm guitar work and backing vocals became integral components of Joel’s sound throughout the late 1970s and 1980s. His playing style complemented the band’s overall dynamic, providing solid rhythmic support while occasionally stepping forward for lead guitar parts when needed.

Throughout his tenure with Joel, Javors contributed to some of the most beloved albums in popular music, including “Turnstiles,” “The Stranger,” “52nd Street,” “Glass Houses,” “The Nylon Curtain,” “An Innocent Man,” and “The Bridge.” His guitar work and harmonies can be heard on classic Joel songs that continue to receive regular radio play and are performed at concerts worldwide. Javors’ contributions extended beyond just playing, as his songwriting experience from his Topper days provided valuable input during the creative process of Joel’s albums.

Javors left Joel’s band in 1989 along with Doug Stegmeyer as Joel made significant changes to his musical direction and production approach. Following his departure, Javors continued his music career and eventually reunited with his former bandmates in The Lords of 52nd Street. On October 23, 2014, Javors was inducted into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame along with Cannata, DeVitto, and Stegmeyer (posthumously), primarily for their work with Joel. The Lords of 52nd Street continues to perform faithful renditions of Joel’s classic recordings, allowing fans to experience the original arrangements and energy of the songs as they were first recorded.

Richie Cannata

Richard “Richie” Cannata served as saxophonist, keyboardist, and occasional vocalist for Billy Joel from 1976 to 1982, bringing a jazz sensibility and distinctive saxophone sound that became synonymous with Joel’s classic recordings. Cannata joined the newly formed Billy Joel Band when the core members of Topper were assembled with Joel, completing the lineup that would define Joel’s sound throughout his most successful period. His saxophone work became one of the most recognizable elements of Joel’s music, particularly evident on songs like “Just the Way You Are” and numerous tracks from “The Stranger” and “52nd Street.”

Cannata’s musical versatility made him an invaluable member of the band, as he contributed not only saxophone but also organ, keyboards, and backing vocals when needed. His jazz background brought sophistication to Joel’s arrangements, helping to elevate the musical complexity of the recordings while maintaining their accessibility to mainstream audiences. The addition of Richie Cannata on saxophone completed the “Billy Joel Band” formation that would become one of the most successful backing bands in popular music history.

One important addition to the band in 1982 was the replacement of his long-time saxophonist Richie Cannata with Mark Rivera. Cannata’s departure marked the end of an era for the classic Joel band lineup, though the reasons for his leaving were not widely publicized. His saxophone work on Joel’s classic albums remains some of the most memorable and influential in popular music, helping to define the sophisticated pop-rock sound that made Joel a global superstar.

Following his time with Joel, Cannata established Cove City Studios, where he continues to work as a producer and engineer. Liberty DeVitto serves as the house drummer at Cannata’s studio, maintaining their musical partnership beyond their Joel years. In 2014, Cannata reunited with DeVitto and Javors for their induction into the Long Island Music Hall of Fame, and they officially formed The Lords of 52nd Street, which plays faithful renditions of the original Joel recordings. For the 2006 tour, Cannata temporarily returned on lead saxophones though he soon left the band again and Rivera returned to his position as lead saxophonist, demonstrating the ongoing respect Joel had for Cannata’s musical contributions.

David Brown

David Brown served as lead guitarist for Billy Joel from 1978 through the 1980s, joining the band during their peak commercial period and contributing distinctive guitar work to some of Joel’s most beloved albums. Joel also added lead guitarist David Brown in 1978 who stayed with the band throughout the 1980s, beginning with the recording of “Glass Houses” (1980). Brown’s addition to the band provided a different guitar dynamic from the rhythm guitar work of Russell Javors, allowing for more complex arrangements and layered guitar parts that enhanced Joel’s increasingly sophisticated compositions.

Brown’s guitar work can be heard on crucial Joel albums including “Glass Houses,” “The Nylon Curtain,” “An Innocent Man,” and “The Bridge.” His playing style brought influences from classic rock and blues traditions while adapting to Joel’s pop sensibilities and the band’s tight ensemble approach. The guitar work by Brown channeled George Harrison influences, and he worked closely with drummer Liberty DeVitto, who tried to emulate Ringo Starr’s approach, creating Beatles-influenced dynamics within Joel’s band structure.

Throughout the 1980s, Brown was part of the core group that Joel retained as he made various changes to his band lineup. For the 1989 album “Storm Front,” when Joel chose a new producer and started making more significant changes to the band, at this point, the only players that Joel kept, for both his touring band and for the recording of the album, were Brown, Rivera, and DeVitto. This demonstrates the high regard Joel had for Brown’s musical contributions and his importance to the band’s sound during a period of transition.

In August 2024, Liberty DeVitto announced on his Facebook that guitarist David Brown had passed away, marking the end of an era for the classic Joel band alumni. Brown’s guitar work remains an integral part of Joel’s recorded legacy, and his contributions helped define the sound of some of the most commercially successful and artistically acclaimed albums in popular music history. His death represents a significant loss for the extended Billy Joel musical family and for fans who appreciated his tasteful and effective guitar work throughout Joel’s classic period.

Mark Rivera

Mark Rivera joined Billy Joel’s band in 1982, replacing Richie Cannata as the primary saxophonist and becoming a long-term member who has remained with Joel for over four decades. One important addition to the band in 1982 was the replacement of his long-time saxophonist Richie Cannata with Mark Rivera. Rivera brought his own musical personality to the saxophone role while maintaining the high standards and jazz-influenced approach that had characterized Cannata’s contributions to the band.

Rivera’s saxophone work became an integral part of Joel’s sound from the 1980s onward, contributing to albums including “The Nylon Curtain,” “An Innocent Man,” “The Bridge,” “Storm Front,” and “River of Dreams.” His versatility as a multi-instrumentalist has made him valuable beyond just saxophone, as he also plays flute, harmonica, and percussion while providing backing vocals. This multi-instrumental approach has allowed Rivera to adapt to the changing needs of Joel’s music and touring requirements over the decades.

Throughout the various lineup changes that occurred in Joel’s band during the late 1980s and early 1990s, Rivera remained a constant presence. For the 1989 album “Storm Front,” when Joel made significant changes to his band, at this point, the only players that Joel kept, for both his touring band and for the recording of the album, were Brown, Rivera, and DeVitto. This continuity demonstrates Rivera’s importance to Joel’s musical vision and his ability to adapt to new musical directions while maintaining the quality and professionalism that Joel demanded.

Rivera continues to be a core member of Billy Joel’s current touring band, participating in Joel’s ongoing monthly residency at Madison Square Garden and other tour dates. His longevity with Joel surpasses that of most other band members, making him one of the most enduring musical partnerships in Joel’s career. His saxophone work has become synonymous with the live Joel experience for multiple generations of fans, and his professionalism and musical versatility have made him an indispensable part of Joel’s ongoing musical legacy.

Mike DelGuidice

Mike DelGuidice joined Billy Joel’s band in 2013 as a multi-instrumentalist providing rhythm guitar and backing vocals, bringing a unique perspective as someone who had spent years studying and performing Joel’s music as a tribute artist. In 2013, the Billy Joel Band was joined by multi-instrumentalist Mike DelGuidice on rhythm guitar and backing vocals. DelGuidice had previously fronted various Billy Joel tribute projects. His path to joining Joel’s official band began on Long Island, where DelGuidice also grew up and attended Miller Place High School.

DelGuidice’s passion for Joel’s music led him to form a tribute band called Big Shot, named after Joel’s 1978 hit single. Regionally successful, DelGuidice supported his family with Big Shot, playing covers of songs from Joel’s vast, decades-spanning catalog. His physical resemblance to Joel, including their shared baldness, along with his deep musical understanding of Joel’s repertoire, made him a natural fit when an opportunity arose to join the official band.

DelGuidice’s addition to Joel’s band came through a remarkable set of circumstances. In 2010, just as he was losing his patience with the constant hustle of touring with his tribute band and caring for his family, DelGuidice heard Joel was sidelined from his own touring schedule upon undergoing hip replacement surgery. This led to DelGuidice auditioning for and joining Joel’s official band, transitioning from tribute artist to official band member in a way that few musicians have experienced.

From there, DelGuidice went on the road with Joel for a run of dates in Europe before becoming an official part of the band for his debut gig for the historic Madison Square Garden residency. “It was a lot at first, but it’s a well-oiled machine,” he says. “It’s was pretty easy to slide onto the conveyor belt that’s running so smoothly. And I think that’s a testament to how he runs his organization. He’s beloved, so it’s a big family.” DelGuidice continues to balance his role in Joel’s official band with performances of his tribute act, allowing him to experience both the intimacy of smaller venues and the spectacle of major arenas and stadiums.

Chuck Burgi

Chuck Burgi joined Billy Joel’s band in 2006 as drummer, replacing Liberty DeVitto after DeVitto’s 30-year tenure ended due to legal disputes and personal conflicts with Joel. For the 2006 tour, Joel did not invite DeVitto back as his drummer after the two became involved in a legal dispute, and the drummer Chuck Burgi (who played in the Broadway production of “Movin’ Out”) replaced DeVitto. Burgi’s background in musical theater, particularly his work on the Billy Joel/Twyla Tharp Broadway production “Movin’ Out,” provided him with extensive experience performing Joel’s music in a live setting.

Burgi’s transition to Joel’s touring band represented a significant change for the organization, as DeVitto had been such a long-standing and integral member of the group. Burgi’s drumming style and approach had to fill the considerable shoes left by DeVitto while adapting to the expectations and musical dynamics that Joel’s audiences had come to expect. His experience with “Movin’ Out” proved invaluable in understanding the nuances and requirements of Joel’s music in a live performance context.

Since joining Joel’s band, Burgi has become a stable and reliable member of the current lineup, participating in Joel’s various tours and his ongoing Madison Square Garden residency. His drumming provides the rhythmic foundation for Joel’s current live performances, maintaining the energy and drive that fans expect while bringing his own musical personality to the role. Burgi’s professionalism and adaptability have made him an effective successor to DeVitto, allowing Joel’s live performances to continue at the high level of quality that has characterized his career.

Burgi’s work with Joel represents the continuation of the band’s evolution, demonstrating how new members can successfully integrate into an established musical organization while respecting the legacy and expectations that come with performing such well-known and beloved music. His drumming continues to support Joel’s live performances as they reach new audiences while satisfying longtime fans who have followed Joel’s career across multiple decades.

Crystal Taliefero

Crystal Taliefero joined Billy Joel’s band in 1989 as a percussionist and multi-instrumentalist, becoming one of the few musicians to maintain a long-term association with Joel through multiple lineup changes and musical transitions. He also added the percussionist and multi-instrumentalist Crystal Taliefero who would become a permanent fixture in his band while Stegmeyer was replaced by Schuyler Deale and Javors was replaced by Joey Hunting on the album and Tommy Byrnes for its accompanying tour. Taliefero’s addition came during a period of significant change for Joel’s band, as he was exploring new musical directions and working with different producers.

Taliefero’s versatility as a multi-instrumentalist has made her an invaluable addition to Joel’s band, capable of handling percussion, keyboards, backing vocals, and other instrumental needs as they arise during performances and recordings. Her musical flexibility has allowed her to adapt to the various stylistic changes that Joel has explored throughout different periods of his career, from the more rock-oriented material of the late 1980s through his more recent work.

Throughout the 1990s and into the 2000s, Taliefero remained a consistent presence in Joel’s touring band, demonstrating the loyalty and musical chemistry that Joel values in his collaborators. Her contributions extend beyond just instrumental performance, as her backing vocals and stage presence have enhanced the overall live experience for Joel’s audiences. The fact that she became a “permanent fixture” in the band speaks to her musical abilities and professional reliability.

Taliefero continues to be part of Joel’s current touring lineup, participating in his ongoing performances and maintaining the continuity that has characterized her tenure with the organization. Her longevity with Joel represents one of the more successful long-term musical partnerships in his band’s history, and her contributions have helped bridge the gap between Joel’s classic period and his contemporary touring presentations. Her presence in the band demonstrates Joel’s appreciation for musicians who can grow and evolve with his musical vision while maintaining consistent quality and professionalism.

David Rosenthal

David Rosenthal serves as keyboardist, pianist, organist, and musical director for Billy Joel’s current touring band, representing the continuation of Joel’s tradition of working with accomplished keyboard players who can handle both the technical and creative demands of his music. As musical director, Rosenthal is responsible for coordinating the band’s performances, maintaining musical arrangements, and ensuring that Joel’s live presentations meet the high standards that audiences expect from one of popular music’s most accomplished performers.

Rosenthal’s role as musical director involves not only his own keyboard and piano contributions but also overseeing the overall musical coordination of the band during rehearsals and performances. This position requires extensive knowledge of Joel’s catalog, understanding of his musical preferences, and the ability to communicate effectively with other band members to maintain the tight ensemble playing that characterizes Joel’s live shows. His background and experience have prepared him to handle the complex logistics of presenting Joel’s sophisticated musical arrangements in live settings.

The current Billy Joel band lineup, which includes Rosenthal as a key member, continues the tradition of musical excellence that has characterized Joel’s career while adapting to contemporary touring demands and audience expectations. Rosenthal’s contributions help ensure that classic Joel songs are presented faithfully while allowing for the spontaneity and energy that make live performances special. His musical director role also involves preparing for the various special guests and unique situations that arise during Joel’s tours and residency performances.

Rosenthal’s work with Joel represents the ongoing evolution of the Billy Joel Band, demonstrating how new musicians can successfully integrate into an established musical legacy while bringing their own expertise and creativity to the role. His contributions as both performer and musical director help maintain the continuity and quality that have made Joel’s live performances among the most popular and enduring in popular music.

Check out more Billy Joel articles on ClassicRockHistory.com Just click on any of the links below……

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Fifty-two years after it was first released, Lynyrd Skynyrd have finally made a video for Free Bird

A motorcycle on the open road, shot from above
(Image credit: Lynyrd Skynyrd)

Fifty-two years after it was first released on Lynyrd Skynyrd‘s debut 1973 album (Pronounced ‘Lĕh-‘nérd ‘Skin-‘nérd), the band have finally released an official video for its most iconic track, Free Bird.

The video, directed by Max Moore, cuts between an older man and his younger self, looking back with affection at a past romance and the motorbike that facilitated it. Enamoured by all this nostalgia, the older man dusts down his bike, fixes it up and hits the open road, just in time for the guitar solo. The video is also riddled with romantic tropes, including a piggy-bag ride during a falling-in-love montage.

Director Moore has previously worked with Spiritbox, Code Orange, Knocked Loose and many more, while actor Mike Seely – who plays the older man – appeared as Hugh Heffner in the TV series Pam & Tommy.

Last month Skynyrd announced a new live album. Celebrating 50 Years – Live At The Ryman was recorded at the Ryman Theater in Nashville in November 2022 on the band’s Big Wheels Keep On Turnin’ Tour. The show was founding guitarist Gary Rossington‘s final performance with the band, just five months before his death.

Lynyrd Skynyrd’s 50th anniversary tour reaches the UK in June, and returns to the US in August. Support at the UK shows comes from Blackberry Smoke. Full dates below.

Lynyrd Skynyrd: 50th Anniversary Tour 2025

May 30: Atlantic City Ocean Casino Resort, NJ
May 31: West York Rock The Country – York, PA 2025, PA
Jun 14: Hastings Rock The Country, MI
Jun 20: Eau Claire Summer Jam 2025, WI

Jun 27: Barcelona Rock Fest, Spain
Jun 29: Ferrara Summer Festival, Italy
Jun 30: Munich Tollwood, Germany
Jul 02: Breisach am Rheim Onot & Rock Festival, Germany
Jul 04: Halle Freilichtbühne Peißnitz, Germany
Jul 05: Bonn Kunstrasen Bonn Gronau, Germany
Jul 07: Prague O2 Arena, Czech Republic
Jul 08: St Pölten Vaz, Austria
Jul 10: Paris Zénith de Paris – La Villette, France
Jul 12: Bad Mergentheim Residenzschloss Mergentheim, Germany
Jul 13: Berlin Zitadelle Spandau, Germany
Jul 15: Manchester AO Arena, UK
Jul 16: Birmingham Utilita Arena, UK
Jul 18: Brighton Centre, UK
Jul 19: London OVO Arena, UK

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Aug 01: Saratoga Mountain Winery, CA
Aug 02: Las Vegas Pearl Concert Theater, NV
Aug 03: Highland Yaamava’ Theater, CA
Aug 09: West Allis Wisconsin State Fair Park, WI
Aug 11: Des Moines Iowa State Fairgrounds, IA
Aug 14: Airway Heights BECU Live, WA
Aug 29: Uncasville Mohegan Sun Arena, CT

Sep 10: Calgary Scotiabank Saddledome, AB
Sep 11: Edmonton Rogers Place, AB
Sep 12: Saskatoon SaskTel Centre, SK
Sep 13: Winnipeg Canada Life Centre, MB
Sep 18: Oshawa Tribute Communities Centre, ON
Sep 19: Niagara Falls Fallsview Casino, ON
Sep 20: Laval Place Bell, QC
Sep 22: Moncton Avenir Centre, NB
Sep 23: Halifax Scotiabank Centre, NS
Sep 25: St. John’s Mary Brown’s Centre, NL

Oct 04: Winnsboro Field & Stream Festival, SC

Tickets are on sale now.

Online Editor at Louder/Classic Rock magazine since 2014. 39 years in music industry, online for 26. Also bylines for: Metal Hammer, Prog Magazine, The Word Magazine, The Guardian, The New Statesman, Saga, Music365. Former Head of Music at Xfm Radio, A&R at Fiction Records, early blogger, ex-roadie, published author. Once appeared in a Cure video dressed as a cowboy, and thinks any situation can be improved by the introduction of cats. Favourite Serbian trumpeter: Dejan Petrović.

“I didn’t really get the music, to be honest. It was a bit too prog for me”: The prog superstars who tried to steal drummer Roger Taylor from Queen

Queen’s Roger Taylor posing for a photograph in 1973
(Image credit: Michael Putland/Getty Images)

Few bands have had a career to match Queen. Formed in London in 1970, they became one of the biggest groups on the planet thanks to huge hits such as Bohemian Rhapsody, Another One Bites The Dust and Radio GaGa. Their mix of anthemic songwriting, uplifting musicianship and the charisma of frontman Freddie Mercury marked them out as utterly unique compared to such 70s peers as Led Zeppelin, David Bowie and Black Sabbath.

Mercury’s death in 1991 seemingly marked the end of the band, but guitarist Brian May and drummer Roger Taylor returned in 2004 with former Free/Bad Company singer Paul Rodgers under the name Queen + Paul Rodgers (bassist John Deacon sat out the reunion, having officially retired). Since 2011, the revitalised band have been fronted by American Idol runner-up Adam Lambert, playing a string of acclaimed shows and releasing the UK No.1 live album Live Around The World. Those later line-up changes helped keep the band alive, with a string of world tours and the huge success of the 2018 biopic Bohemian Rhapsody introducing them to new generations of fans.

They may have changed singers a couple of times since their return, but amazingly, the band’s classic line up stayed the same for virtually all of its original existence. Mercury, May and Taylor founded the band in 1970, and they were joined the following year by Deacon – the same four men who would make up Queen for the next 20 years.

But it could have been very different. Roger Taylor, whose powerhouse drumming would become one of the band’s sonic signatures was almost poached by a rival band – one whose success in the 80s would go on to match that of Queen.

Like many other bands who started out in the early 70s, Queen spent their first few years playing the club circuit. Their early gigs included shows at such venues as Truro Town Hall, Liverpool’s Cavern Club and famed London club The Marquee.

Another fledging band putting in the hours on the same circuit were Genesis, who were gradually transforming into something more theatrical and progressive. It’s unclear when the two groups’ paths first crossed, but Queen clearly made an impression on the Peter Gabriel-fronted band. When Genesis drummer John Mayhew announced that he was leaving in the summer of 1970, they reached out to Taylor in the hope that he might be interested in joining.

“Well, they invited me to the studio, then we went to the pub,” Taylor told Classic Rock in 2020, on the band’s 50th anniversary. “They didn’t say, ‘Do you want to join the group?’, but I get the impression that’s what they wanted because their drummer had left.”

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Taylor was flattered by the offer, but he wasn’t tempted to desert his own band – not least because he wasn’t a huge fan of Genesis’ complex songs.

“I didn’t really get the music, to be honest,” he admitted. “It was a bit too prog for me. But they’re all lovely people.”

In the end Genesis opted for Phil Collins, a former child star who had most recently been in the band Flaming Youth. With Collins behind the drums, Genesis established themselves as leading lights of the emerging progressive rock scene. After Peter Gabriel’s departure in 1974, he took on the additional role of frontman, helping lead the band to huge success with albums such as Duke, Abacab, Invisible Touch and We Can’t Dance.

Genesis weren’t the only band interested in poaching Taylor. In the mid-70s, shortly after Queen supported Mott The Hoople on what would be one of the latter’s last tours before they split, the latter’s singer Ian Hunter and guitarist Mick Ronson asked the drummer if he was interested in joining them in an all-star trio.

“I had a wonderful offer from Mick Ronson and Ian Hunter,” Taylor said. “It was going to be called Hunter Ronson Taylor. That would have been good.”

The reason Taylor turned that one down was less to do with the music they were making and more to do with the bond he had with his Queen bandmates by that point. “I believed there was something about the four of us as a band that was special,” he said. “And I was right.”

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